>>> HELLO, EVERYONE.

WELCOME TO AMANPOUR AND COMPANY.

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> THE UNITED STATES IS FACING A GENERATIONAL CHALLENGE FROM CHINA.

>> U.S.-CHINA TENSIONS RAMP UP AGAIN AS THE TARIFF TRUTHS WAIVERS.

HOW CAN AMERICA COUNTER CHINA.

I ASK ELI RATNER.

THEN -- >> I THINK ONE OF THE WAYS MARKS -- MALCOLM INSPIRES PEOPLE.

>>> AUTHOR IBRAM KENDI TALKS TO ME ABOUT "MALCOLM LIVES" AND INSPIRING YOUNG PEOPLE.

>> ONE WAY OR ANOTHER THE BALANCES WILL GO AWAY.

THEY CANNOT BE SUSTAINED IN THE WORLD THAT NOW EXISTS.

>> HOW COUNTRIES GO BROKE.

WALTER ISAACSON WEEKS TO RATE ELIO ABOUT HIS LATEST BOOK OUTLINING WHAT HE CALLS THE BIG DEBT CYCLE.

>>> ON THE 81st ANNIVERSARY OF D-DAY WE LOOK AT CHRISTIANE'S CONVERSATION WITH TOM HANKS ABOUT PRESERVING THE STORIES OF THAT HEROIC GENERATION.

>>> AMANPOUR AND COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM , LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS FAMILY CHARITABLE TRUST, MARK J. BLECHNER, FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION, SETON J. MELVIN, PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN -- COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS, AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATIONS BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

I AM SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

YET AGAIN, U.S.-CHINA RELATIONS ARE TENSE.

THE WHITE HOUSE HAS ACCUSED CHINA OF VIOLATING AND UNDERMINING THEIR AGREEMENT.

EARLIER THIS WEEK PRESIDENT TRUMP POSTED ON TRUTH SOCIAL THAT CHINA'S PRESIDENT XI WAS EXTREMELY HARD TO MAKE A DEAL WITH.

AFTER A LONG-AWAITED CALL BETWEEN THE LEADERS HE SAID HE WAS ENCOURAGED THAT TENSIONS COULD BE RESOLVED.

GEOPOLITICAL ASPIRATIONS REMAIN AMBITIOUS WITH REPORTS THAT PRESIDENT XI IS SEEKING TO DOMINATE THE INDO PACIFIC REGION.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR AMERICA AND GLOBAL SECURITY.

ELY RATNER JOINS ME TO DISCUSS HIS LATEST FOREIGN AFFAIRS PIECE, THE CASE FOR EDIFICE -- PACIFIC DEFENSE PACT.

TALK ABOUT THE CONTOURS YOU ARE PROPOSING AND HOW THIS DIFFERS FROM AMERICA'S CURRENT POLITICAL LANDSCAPE IN THE INDO PACIFIC?

>> IT IS GREAT TO BE WITH YOU.

THE REALITY IS THE UNITED STATES IS FACING A GENERATIONAL CHALLENGE FROM CHINA.

WE HAVE A GOVERNMENT MAKING ENORMOUS INVESTMENTS IN THE MILITARY AND HAS CLEAR OBJECTIVES TO DOMINATE ASIA AND THE INDO PACIFIC IN A WAY THAT WOULD BE HARMFUL TO THE U.S.

THE CENTRAL QUESTION IS HOW DO WE PREVENT THAT FROM HAPPENING?

HOW DO WE DETER CHINESE AGGRESSIVE -- AGGRESSION.

UNFORTUNATELY, THE MODELS WE HAVE FOR DOING THAT IN THE PAST WHICH IS BASED ON INDIVIDUAL RELATIONSHIPS WITH ASIAN COUNTRIES ARE NOT GOING TO BE SUFFICIENT TO DEAL WITH THE MOUNTING CHALLENGE.

WHAT I PROPOSE IS BRINGING TOGETHER OUR CLOSEST ALLIES IN A WAY THAT MAKES THE WHOLE GREATER THAN THE SUM OF THE PARTS.

>> YOU SPECIFICALLY REFERENCE BRINGING TOGETHER THE UNITED STATES, PHILIPPINES, JAPAN AND AUSTRALIA.

RIGHT NOW AND AS YOU KNOW, AMERICA HAS REALLY FOCUSED ON MAINTAINING BILATERAL RELATIONSHIPS WITH COUNTRIES IN THE REGION.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT WHERE THINGS STAND AND CURRENTLY WHAT U.S. TRADING'S -- TREATIES AND PROTECTION IS IN PLACE AND HOW YOUR PLAN WOULD EXPAND UPON THAT.

>> UNLIKE IN EUROPE WHERE THERE IS A SINGLE REGIONWIDE ORGANIZATION ALLIANCE LIKE NATO, AND ASIA WHAT WE HAVE ARE A SET OF INDIVIDUAL ALLIANCES.

THE U.S. HAS AN ALLIANCE WITH JAPAN, THE PHILIPPINES, SOUTH KOREA, THAILAND.

THE ONLY TREATIES ARE WITH WASHINGTON.

WHAT WE HAVE SEEN OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS IS THAT OUR CLOSEST PARTNERS INCLUDING JAPAN, AUSTRALIA AND THE PHILIPPINES HAVE BEEN MUCH MORE FOCUSED ON THE CHINA CHALLENGE.

THEY ARE INCREASING DEFENSE SPENDING SO THE STRATEGIC ALIGNMENT IS QUITE CLOSE RIGHT NOW.

THEY ARE ALSO WORKING MUCH MORE WITH EACH OTHER.

WE SEE A LOT OF MILITARY COOPERATION ENABLING A MORE COLLECTIVE APPROACH.

THANKFULLY WE ARE ALSO SEEING DEMANDS IN WASHINGTON FOR ALLIES AND PARTNERS TO DO MORE.

I THINK THAT IS A GOOD THING.

WHEN YOU PUT THOSE PIECES TOGETHER YOU START CREATING OPPORTUNITIES FOR COLLECTIVE DEFENSE FOR THESE COUNTRIES TO COME TOGETHER, TO BE WORKING TOGETHER FROM A PERSPECTIVE OF PLANNING, OPERATIONS, CONTROL, THE WORKINGS OF MILITARY OPERATION WHICH IS WHAT WE WILL NEED TO DETER CHINESE AGGRESSION IN THE FUTURE.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT CHINA'S CLAIM OVER VAST AREAS OF THE SOUTH CHINA SEA WITH TERRITORIAL WATERS OF SEVERAL COUNTRIES INCLUDING THE PHILIPPINES AND VIETNAM AT STAKE.

CHINA BASES THESE CLAIMS PARTLY ON, QUOTE, HISTORICAL RIGHTS.

THAT IS A CONCEPT NOT RECOGNIZED BY THE UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF THE SEA.

IN 2016 -- BY THE WAY, CHINA IS A SIGNATORY.

THEY CITED IN FAVOR WITH THE PHILIPPINES IN BRINGING A SUIT AGAINST CHINA.

CHINA HAS DISAVOWED THE RULING, NOT RECOGNIZED IT.

TALK ABOUT CHINA'S INCREASED AGGRESSION AS IT MAINTAINS -- PERTAINS TO THE SOUTH CHINA SEA AND WHY THEY ARE BEING SO AGGRESSIVE?

>> IT IS AN IMPORTANT QUESTION AND FRANKLY IT'S A CASE IN POINT.

WE HAVE A CHINA VERY FOCUSED ON CONTROLLING AND DOMINATING THE SOUTH CHINA SEA IN A WAY THAT IS, AS YOU KNOW, DIRECTLY IN CONTRAVENTION OF INTERNATIONAL LAW.

THE U.N. HAD A PANEL THAT RULED THAT CHINA'S FAST CLAIMS, ESSENTIALLY CLAIMING ALL THE FEATURES IN THE SOUTH CHINA SEA THAT THOSE CLAIMS ARE LEGAL.

NONETHELESS, BEIJING HAS CONTINUED TO USE ITS NAVY, ITS COAST GUARD, WHAT IS KNOWN AS ITS MARITIME MILITIA WHICH ARE SUPPOSEDLY CIVILIAN FISHING VESSELS ENGAGING IN SUPPORTING THE CHINESE NAVY.

THEY ARE ENGAGING IN A LOT OF COERCION AND IN SOME CASES VIOLENCE TO PUSH BACK CLAIMS TO VIETNAM AND PHILIPPINES AND OTHER REGIONS THAT ARE CLAIMING THOSE TERRITORIES.

IT'S A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THE MOUNTING AGGRESSION FROM CHINA.

>> WHAT MORE CAN THE UNITED STATES BE DOING IN RESPONSE TO THIS INCREASED AGGRESSION WE ARE SEEING FROM CHINA IN THE SOUTH CHINA SEA THERE SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE THERE ARE CONCERNS THIS WILL ONLY INCREASE OVER ISSUES LIKE MINING FOR RARE EARTH MINERALS AND EVEN FISHING, THE FISHING INDUSTRY IS A TOP PRIORITY FOR CHINA TO MAINTAIN.

>> THERE'S A LOT WE CAN BE DOING AND A LOT WE ARE DOING.

ONE RELATES TO THE INVESTMENTS WE ARE MAKING IN OUR OWN MILITARY.

ALSO IN MODERNIZING THE DEPLOYMENT OF U.S.

FORCES FORWARD DEPLOYED IN THE INDO PACIFIC.

WE ARE ALSO ENABLING OUR PARTNERS.

GROUND ZERO FOR THE CONTEST HAS BEEN IN TERRITORIES RIGHT OFF THE COAST OF THE PHILIPPINES.

WE HAVE BEEN WORKING HARD TO HELP MODERNIZE THE PHILIPPINES MILITARY, BUT ALSO BRINGING TOGETHER PARTNERS SO IT IS NOT JUST CHINA PICKING ON INDIVIDUAL COUNTRIES BUT HAVING TO DEAL WITH THE REGION AS A WHOLE.

THAT'S WHAT WE WILL NEED GOING FORWARD.

THE SOUTH CHINA SEA IS A VITAL WATERWAY FOR THE GLOBAL ECONOMY.

COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD HAVE VERY IMPORTANT NATIONAL INTERESTS.

THE WORLD OUGHT TO BE COMING TOGETHER TO SAY WE DON'T ACCEPT THIS BEHAVIOR AND WILL NOT ALLOW CHINA TO DOMINATE THIS PASSAGEWAY.

>> DO WE SEE ANY INTELLIGENCE THAT WOULD SUGGEST THE PREVIOUS NOTION THAT CHINA WAS AT LEAST WANTING TO PREPARE TO POSSIBLY RETAKE TAIWAN FORCEFULLY IF NEED BE BY 2027, JUST A MATTER OF A FEW YEARS.

HAS THERE BEEN ANY INTELLIGENCE OR REPORTING THAT DEVIATES FROM THAT?

IF NOT, WHAT DO WE KNOW THAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS DONE TO ADDRESS THOSE CONCERNS?

>> OBVIOUSLY I'M NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT INTELLIGENCE MATTERS THAT I'M PRIVY TO.

WHAT YOU ARE CITING IS THE PREVIOUS CIA SECRETARY DID NOTE THAT CHINA HAS DIRECTED THE GOVERNMENT MILITARY TO BE PREPARED TO INVADE TAIWAN BY 2027.

THAT DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY GOING TO DO IT NO MATTER WHAT, BUT THEY WANT TO BE PREPARED TO DO IT BY 2027.

THE TASK FOR THE UNITED STATES IS TO ENSURE HE CANNOT DO THAT AT ACCEPTABLE COST.

THAT HE WAKES UP EVERY MORNING, LOOKS OUT THE WINDOW, CONSIDERS THE COST OF CONFLICT AND SAYS, TODAY IS NOT THE DAY.

THAT IS THE CENTRAL TASK IN U.S. FOREIGN POLICY.

AS IT RELATES TO THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IT WILL BE IMPORTANT FOR THEM TO WORK WITH ALLIES AND PARTNERS TO COUNTER THE CHINA CHALLENGE.

THE GOOD NEWS ON THIS FRONT IS WE HAVE SEEN A LOT OF CONTINUITY, QUITE DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN EUROPE.

SECRETARY HEGSETH MADE HIS FIRST TRIP TO THE PHILIPPINES THIS PAST WEEKEND.

HE WAS IN SINGAPORE AT A MAJOR ASIAN DEFENSE CONFERENCE.

HIS MESSAGE WAS ONE OF U.S.

COMMITMENT TO THE REGION AND ALLIES AND PARTNERS.

IT'S IMPORTANT THAT CONTINUE.

>> HE SAID NOBODY SHOULD DOUBT AMERICA'S COMMITMENT TO INDO PACIFIC ALLIES AND PARTNERS.

HE CALLED THE INDO PACIFIC OUR PRIORITY.

HE WARNED THAT THREAT FROM CHINA COULD BE A MINUTE.

THOSE ARE WORDS AND I'M SURE ENCOURAGING WORDS FOR ALLIES IN THE REGION.

WHAT IF ANYTHING STRATEGICALLY HAVE YOU SEEN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION DO THUS FAR TO REALLY BACKUP THOSE STATEMENTS FROM WHAT YOU'RE ADMINISTRATION HAD DONE UNDER PRESIDENT BIDEN?

>> THEY HAVE REPORTEDLY PUT TOGETHER AN INTERIM NATIONAL DEFENSE STRATEGY, BUT THE CHINA CHALLENGE AS THE PRINCIPAL FOCUS OF THE DEPARTMENT.

WE WILL JUST HAVE TO SEE WHEN THE BUDGET COMES TOGETHER ARE THEY IN FACT PUTTING RESOURCES AFTER CAPABILITIES THAT ARE SPECIFICALLY ORIENTED TO THE INDO PACIFIC.

WE SHOULD KEEP AN EYE ON HOW THEY ARE DEPLOYING FORCES.

WHEN THEY WERE PULLING AIRCRAFT CARRIERS AND DEFENSES TO DEAL WITH CHALLENGES IN THE MIDDLE EAST AWAY FROM THE INDO PACIFIC THAT DID NOT REFLECT A PRIORITIZATION.

HOWEVER, THOSE OPERATIONS HAVE WOUND DOWN.

WHAT WE SHOULD BE LOOKING FOR IS DOES THE ADMINISTRATION AND PRACTICE PRIORITIZE THE INDO PACIFIC WITH THE WAY IT IS MANAGING THE U.S. MILITARY.

I THINK WHAT WE SAW IN SINGAPORE WAS QUITE ENCOURAGING, THAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS CONTINUING A MESSAGE OF CONTINUITY, ABOUT WORKING WITH ALLIES AND PARTNERS.

I KNOW THAT SECRETARY HEGSETH MET WITH THE NUMBER OF LEADERS IN SINGAPORE INCLUDING IN THE CONSTELLATION OF JAPAN, PHILIPPINES, AND AUSTRALIA.

HE CALLED THAT GRIPPING NONE CLOSER AND ABSOLUTELY CENTRAL TO DETERRENT.

I THINK THE WORK WITH ALLIES AND PARTNERS WILL CONTINUE IN THE AREA SUCH AS HELPING THEM BUILD THEIR CAPABILITIES, WORKING WITH THEM ON THE COLLECTIVE DEFENSE INDUSTRIAL BASE AND WORKING WITH THEM TO PROJECT POWER INTO THE REGION.

THOSE EFFORTS CONTINUE.

THEY SHOULD AND THAT CONTINUITY IS GOOD TO SEE.

>> WE KNOW THAT BOTH THE PHILIPPINES AND JAPAN HAVE TAKEN A MUCH MORE AGGRESSIVE DEFENSIVE POSTURE AND INVESTMENTS IN THE FUTURE IN TERMS OF DEFENSE.

YOU HAVE LEFT OUT NOTABLY SOUTH KOREA IN THIS POTENTIAL ALLIANCE.

I AM WONDERING WHY.

>> SOUTH KOREA IS ONE OF OUR CLOSEST ALLIES.

THEY HAVE A VERY ADVANCED MILITARY.

THE CHALLENGE IS THAT THERE MILITARY HAS BEEN ORIENTED ALMOST ENTIRELY TOWARD NORTH KOREA.

IF NOT GONE THROUGH THE MODERNIZATION AND TRANSFORMATION WE'VE SEEN IN THE PHILIPPINES, JAPAN AND AUSTRALIA WHERE THEY ARE MUCH MORE FOCUSED ON THE CHINA CHALLENGE.

IF SOUTH KOREA WAS WILLING TO TAKE A MORE REGIONAL APPROACH TO THEIR DEFENSE STRATEGY, BY ALL MEANS THEY SHOULD BE PART OF THESE EFFORTS.

>> WE SPENT THE PAST FEW YEARS FOCUSING AS IT RELATES TO ANY POTENTIAL CONFLICT WITH CHINA IN THE FUTURE ON THE CURRENT WAR BETWEEN RUSSIA AND UKRAINE AND THE ROLE THE UNITED STATES HAS PLAYED IN THAT SUGGESTING THAT BEIJING IS WATCHING THIS VERY CAREFULLY AND CLOSELY AS IT IS PLAYING OUT.

TO ADD TO THAT NOW ARE THE U.S. TARIFFS THAT HAVE AN UNVEILED BY THE PRESIDENT.

SOME OF THEM ARE MIRED IN COURTS.

HE SEEMS TO BE DETERMINED TO SEE THEM FORWARD.

I'M WONDERING HOW THIS IMPACTS A POTENTIAL PACT LIKE THE ONE YOU ARE PROPOSING.

>> THE ECONOMIC AND POLITICAL TENSIONS CREATED FROM THE TARIFFS OBVIOUSLY CREATE HEADWINDS FOR DEFENSE COOPERATION.

THE REALITY IS AGAIN, WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IN THE INDO PACIFIC AND ASIA OVER THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS IS LEADERS BOTH IN WASHINGTON AND OUT IN THE REGION TRYING TO SEPARATE OUT THE DEFENSE COOPERATION FROM THE ECONOMIC AND POLITICAL TENSIONS AND HAVE SUCCESSFULLY MANAGED TO DO THAT SO FAR.

THE DEFENSE COOPERATION IS CONTINUING.

I THINK THE CHALLENGE IS THAT DOES NOT LAST FOREVER AND IF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION LEVIES TRULY CRIPPLING POLICIES THAT WILL REPAIR ECONOMY AND ABILITY TO INVEST IN THEIR MILITARY.

LYRICALLY IT WILL MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR THE LEADERS TO DEEPEN THEIR TIES WITH THE UNITED STATES.

MY HOPE IS THAT THE NATIONAL SECURITY ORIENTED FOLKS IN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION GET INVOLVED AND MAKE CLEAR THAT WE NEED TO GET TO YES WITH JAPAN, TAIWAN, AUSTRALIA AND OTHERS SO WE CAN GET BACK TO THE BUSINESS OF STRENGTHENING ALLIANCES.

>> ELY RATNER.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>>> IT'S BEEN 100 YEARS SINCE THE BIRTH OF BLACK ACTIVIST LEADER MALCOLM X.

HE WAS PROMINENT DURING THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT AND ULTIMATELY ASSASSINATED IN 1965 AT THE AGE OF 39.

TO COMMEMORATE HIS LEGACY THE AWARD-WINNING AUTHOR IBRAM X KENDI HAS A BIOGRAPHY.

IT TRACES HIS CHILDHOOD SUFFERING EXTREME RACISM TO HIS FAULT FOR JUSTICE.

HE JOINED ME TO DISCUSS HIS INSPIRATION FOR THE BOOK AND THE HIGHS AND LOWS OF MALCOLM X.

'S LIFE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US AND CONGRATULATIONS ON ANOTHER BOOK.

"MALCOLM LIVES", THE OFFICIAL BIOGRAPHY OF MALCOLM X.

FOR YOUNG READERS.

THIS COINCIDES WITH THE 100 YEAR MARK OF HIS BIRTH.

I KNOW YOU SPENT A NUMBER OF YEARS RESEARCHING AND WRITING THIS BOOK.

DID YOU DO IT TO COINCIDE WITH THIS MARK?

>> WE DID.

CERTAINLY MALCOLM X.

IS ONE OF THE MORE IMPORTANT HISTORICAL FIGURES IN AMERICAN HISTORY, REALLY AND GLOBAL HISTORY.

I KNEW THAT MALCOLM LOVED A LOT OF THINGS.

HE LOVED FIGHTING FOR JUSTICE.

HE LOVED LAMB CHOPS.

HE LOVED A GOOD LAUGH, BUT HE REALLY LOVED A GOOD BOOK.

I THOUGHT, WHAT BETTER WAY TO HELP COMMEMORATE HIS 100th BIRTHDAY THAN TO CREATE A BOOK ABOUT HIS LIFE FOR YOUNG READERS.

>> YOU MENTIONED THAT HE LOVED TO READ.

MALCOLM X.

ON THE COVER OF THE BOOK IS STANDING ON A LARGE PILE OF BOOKS.

HOW WERE BOOKS AND READING FROM EARLY IN HIS LIFE SO IMPORTANT AND PIVOTAL FOR HIM?

>> MALCOLM BECAME KNOWN WORLDWIDE AS A FREEDOM FIGHTER.

SOMEBODY FIGHTING FOR THE FREEDOM OF LACK PEOPLE.

SOMEONE FIGHTING FOR THE FREEDOM OF ALL PEOPLE.

WHEN YOU READ HIS STORY, WHEN YOU READ HIS WORDS, WHAT FIRST AROUND -- ALLOWED HIM TO LIBERATE AND REALLY FREE HIMSELF WAS BOOKS.

PARTICULARLY WHEN HE WAS INCARCERATED.

HE BECAME A BINGE READER.

HE WRITES ABOUT HOW LIBERATING IT WAS TO BEGIN TO KNOW HIMSELF AND KNOW HIS WORLD AND KNOW THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD.

>> ON THE FIRST PAGE YOU WRITE, HISTORY IS BORING WHEN IT IS DEAD AND INTERESTING WHEN IT IS ALIVE.

IN YOUR PERSPECTIVE, HOW CAN HISTORY EVER BE DEAD?

>> I WROTE THAT PASSAGE BECAUSE THE BOOK IS PARTICULARLY FOR YOUNG READERS.

YOUNG READERS OFTEN THINK THAT HISTORY IS NOT RELEVANT TO THEM.

IT WAS REALLY A WAY TO ENGAGE YOUNG READERS WITH HOW HISTORY LIVES AND CERTAINLY HOW MALCOLM'S LEGACY IS LIVING.

THE BOOK IS CONSTANTLY SHOWING THE WAYS IN WHICH PARTICULAR EXPERIENCES AND CHALLENGES MALCOLM WAS FACING IN HIS TIME ARE STILL WITH US.

PARTICULAR MESSAGES THAT MALCOLM WAS EXPLAINING OR SHARING IN HIS MOMENT ARE STILL RELEVANT IN THE HERE AND NOW.

I'M SORT OF TRYING TO MEET YOUNG READERS WHERE THEY ARE AND ALLOWING THEM TO SEE HOW HISTORY IS STILL RELEVANT.

>> I HEARD YOU SAY IT WAS IMPORTANT NOT TO COME ACROSS AS PATRONIZING OR ONLY CATERING TO YOUNG READERS.

THIS BOOK IS SOMETHING THAT ADULTS CAN ALSO READ.

WHY WAS IT IMPORTANT TO STRADDLE BOTH GENERATIONS?

>> FIRST AND FOREMOST THERE ARE A LOT OF ADULTS WHO ARE READING BOOKS THAT HAVE BEEN WRITTEN FOR YOUNG PEOPLE.

THAT MAY BE BECAUSE TYPICALLY THESE BOOKS THAT ARE WRITTEN FOR YOUNG PEOPLE ARE INCREDIBLY ENGAGING, INTERESTING, WELL PUT TOGETHER BECAUSE WE ARE COMPETING WITH YOUTUBE VIDEOS AND INSTAGRAM AND OTHER PRETTY ENGAGING ENTITIES.

I ALSO THINK, PARTICULARLY IN THE UNITED STATES, AND THIS IS CERTAINLY THE CASE IN OTHER COUNTRIES, THERE ARE MANY ADULTS READING AT A MIDDLE GRADE LEVEL.

INDEED, ONE STUDY FOUND THE MAJORITY OF AMERICAN ADULTS READ AT A MIDDLE GRADE LEVEL.

WHEN WE ARE WRITING MIDDLE GRADE BOOKS WE AREN'T JUST WRITING FOR YOUNG PEOPLE.

WE ARE WRITING FOR EVERYONE.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO CREATE LITERATURE THAT MEETS PEOPLE WHERE THEY ARE, NOT LOOKING DOWN ON THEM OR PATRONIZING THEM BUT REALLY TRANSLATING IT IN LANGUAGE THEY CAN UNDERSTAND AND GRASP.

I WANT PEOPLE TO GRASP THE LIFE AND THOUGHT OF MALCOLM X.

>> YOU SAID LIFE STORIES ARE THE GREATEST TEACHERS.

I WONDER IF YOU CAN SHARE A LIFE STORY THAT CAN OFFER A MEANINGFUL LESSON TO THE READERS OF THIS BOOK.

>> MALCOLM, AS AN EXAMPLE THERE IS A STORY IN WHICH MALCOLM, ABOUT A WEEK BEFORE HE IS ASSASSINATED, HIS HOME IS FIREBOMBED WITH HIS WIFE AND DAUGHTERS IN IT.

IT IS FIREBOMBED BY ONE OF HIS ENEMIES, PARTICULARLY THE NATION OF ISLAM.

REPORTERS AFTER THIS FIREBOMBING COME TO THE HOUSE AND ASK HIM, IS THIS GOING TO STOP HIM.

HE SAYS, NO.

THIS IS NOT GOING TO STOP ME.

I DON'T FEAR ANYONE OR ANYTHING.

I WANTED TO MENTION THAT BECAUSE I THINK ONE OF THE WAYS IN WHICH MALCOLM X.

STILL INSPIRES PEOPLE IT IS THROUGH HIS FEAR AND -- FEARLESSNESS.

STILL RECOGNIZING HE NEEDS TO FIGHT FOR JUSTICE, FOR HUMAN RIGHTS, IN THIS MOMENT WHERE MORE AND MORE PEOPLE ARE BEING PARALYZED AND STOPPED BY FEAR, PEOPLE BY MALCOLM X.

WHO WAS FEARLESS I THINK IS REALLY QUITE ENGAGING.

>> YOU RECOUNT A NUMBER OF INSTANCES FROM THE 20th CENTURY AND TRY TO DRAW PARALLELS SINCE TERMS OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS FIGHT THAT YOUNG ADULTS AND YOUNG READERS CAN RELATE TO AS WELL.

WHY WAS IT IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO NOT ONLY GIVE A HISTORICAL ACCOUNT OF WHAT SOME OF WHAT MALCOLM X. ENDURED IN HIS GENERATION INJURED AND WHAT YOUNGER READERS MAY BE FAMILIAR WITH.

>> FIRST, WHENEVER I SPEAK TO YOUNG PEOPLE.

IT IS SIMILAR WHEN I SPEAK TO ADULTS ABOUT HISTORY, ONE OF THE MAJOR QUESTIONS IS HOW DOES THIS RELATE TO ME?

OR HOW IS THIS CONNECTED TO ME?

WHY SHOULD THIS BE IMPORTANT TO ME OR PEOPLE THAT I LOVE.

I WANTED TO CONTINUOUSLY SHOW, FOR INSTANCE, WHEN MALCOLM WAS A YOUNG PERSON AND HE WAS HUNGRY.

THAT HUNGER WAS LEADING TO HIM TO SORT OF MISBEHAVE, TO TAKE APPLES FROM DOWNTOWN STORES, IN THE HERE AND THE NOW THERE ARE STILL KIDS.

THERE ARE STILL YOUNG PEOPLE THAT ARE HUNGRY.

THERE ARE STILL SCHOOLS AND OTHER AUTHORITIES THAT INSTEAD OF LOOKING AT THE HUNGER AS A PROBLEM THEY ARE LOOKING AT THE CHILD AS THE PROBLEM.

I SUSPECT SOME KIDS READING THE BOOK WILL BE ABLE TO RELATE TO THAT.

>> MALCOLM X.

WAS KNOWN FOR SOME OF HIS POWERFUL SPEECHES.

IT WAS CALLED THE BULLET OR THE BALLOT.

IT WAS DELIVERED IN DETROIT IN 1964.

HE LAYS OUT HIS VELOCITY -- PHILOSOPHY OF WHAT BLACK NATIONALISM MEANS.

YOU PUBLISH THE NOTES IN THE BOOK.

IT'S QUITE STUNNING THAT IT IS JUST ONE PAGE.

THERE IS FAIRLY ANY PREPARED TEXT.

AS A HISTORIAN WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU ABOUT HOW HE PUT HIS THOUGHTS TOGETHER AND THE WORK THAT HE PUT INTO SOME OF HIS MOST MEMORABLE SPEECHES.

>> IT SHOWS ME HIS PROCESS.

HIS PROCESS AS AN ORATOR WAS TO WRITE PARTICULAR IDEAS ON NOTE CARDS AND ALMOST AS HE CAME TO GET THE SPEECH HAD THE SPEECH PRETTY MUCH OUTLINED ON HIS NOTECARDS AND THOSE NOTES BEING ABLE TO SORT OF PROMPT HIM TO TRANSITION TO DIFFERENT IDEAS.

HE ALSO SPENT QUITE A BIT OF TIME LISTENING TO HIS SPEECHES, STUDYING THE WAY HE GAVE SPEECHES.

HE HAD AN ATTIC OFFICE HE SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN.

HE WORKED HARD AS AN ORATOR BUT HE ALSO FELT THAT HIS SPEECHES WOULD BE MORE ENGAGING IF HE DID NOT NECESSARILY COME WITH THE ENTIRE SPEECH PREPARED.

HE ALLOWED THE CROWD AND THE ATMOSPHERE AND HOW PEOPLE WERE RESPONDING TO DIFFERENT IDEAS TO HELP GUIDE THE SPEECH AS HIS OWN IDEAS, AS HE WAS SEEKING TO EXPRESS HIS OWN IDEAS.

>> WE KNOW MALCOLM X HAD A COMPLICATED REPUTATION IN THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT.

HE WAS AT TIMES DISMISSIVE OF MARTIN LUTHER KING JR. AND THE NONVIOLENT MOVEMENT ITSELF.

MALCOLM X CALLED DR. KING A, QUOTE, MODERN-DAY UNCLE TOM.

KING FOLLOWERS IN RESPECT CALLED MALCOLM X'S FOLLOWERS DOGS.

HOW DO YOU ADDRESS THIS?

>> ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING ASPECTS OF THE LIFE OF MALCOLM X.

AND I BOOTED -- I WOULD AT THE LIFE OF MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.

THEY WERE TWO FIGURES IN THIS CASE MALCOLM X.

WHO IS CONSTANTLY GROWING AND CHANGING AND TRANSFORMING.

WHILE AT ONE POINT HE COULD DEEPLY INDICT MARTIN LUTHER KING JR., AT ANOTHER POINT HE CAN MEET MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.

IN THE HALLS OF THE U.S. CAPITOL AND BE SMILING WITH HIM AND EVEN LEARNING AND COMING CLOSER TO HIM IDEOLOGICALLY AS MARTIN LUTHER KING WAS COMING CLOSER TO MALCOLM X. I TRIED TO REALLY SHOW HIS IDEOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT AND GROWTH SO THAT YOUNG PEOPLE AND ALL READERS COULD SEE HOW WE CAN THINK VERY FORCEFULLY ABOUT A PARTICULAR PERSON OR EXPRESS A PARTICULAR IDEA WHILE ALSO CHANGING THAT IDEA OR OUR IMPRESSIONS OF PARTICULAR PEOPLE.

>> WE KNOW THE NATION OF ISLAM HAD ESPOUSED ANTI-SEMITIC VIEWS.

MALCOLM X.

REPEATED SOME ANTI- SEMITIC TROPES ABOUT JEWS CONTROLLING THE ECONOMY.

WHAT YOU MAKE OF THAT?

WE KNOW THAT LATER IN HIS LIFE HE DISTANCED HIMSELF FROM ISLAM.

WHAT YOU MAKE OF THAT?

>> WE KNOW THAT ANTI-SEMITIC IDEAS THEN WERE WIDE AS THEY ARE NOW.

WE KNOW THAT HE HAD INTERNALIZED SOME OF THOSE IDEAS BUT AT THE SAME TIME HE STARTED MOVING AWAY FROM THE NATION OF ISLAM IDEOLOGICALLY.

HE LEFT THE NATION OF ISLAM IN 1964.

HE, OF COURSE, THROUGH HIS TRIP TO MECCA HE REALIZED THAT HE WAS GOING TO JUDGE EVERY HUMAN BEING NOT BASED ON THEIR IDENTITY OR RACE OR RELIGION, BUT BASED ON THEIR DEEDS.

I THINK THAT ALLOWED HIM TO HAVE A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE OF A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT GROUPS OF PEOPLE, INCLUDING WHITE JUDEO CHRISTIANS.

I THINK THAT ALLOWED HIM PARTICULARLY DURING THE LAST YEAR OF HIS LIFE TO SORT OF SERVE AS A BASIS FOR WHAT BECAME KNOWN AS HIS HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVISM.

>> IT IS SAFE TO SAY A LOT OF THINGS HAVE CHANGED IN THIS COUNTRY OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS FOLLOWING THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD AND THE SUMMER OF 2020.

67% OF AMERICANS SUPPORTED THE BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT.

HOW TO BE ANTIRACIST WAS NUMBER ONE ON THE NEW YORK TIMES BESTSELLER LIST.

YOU BECOME THE POSTER CHILD FOR THE FIRE RIGHT FOR CRITICAL RACE THEORY AND WOKE IDEOLOGY.

EIGHT OF YOUR BOOKS HAVE BEEN BANNED, THE TIMING OF THIS BOOK NOW AND YOUR VIEWS ON EVERYTHING THAT HAS TRANSPIRED OVER THE PAST FIVE YEARS.

WHAT MESSAGE ARE YOU SENDING?

>> ONE THING I THINK READERS WHO HAVE WITNESSED THE LAST FIVE YEARS WILL BE ABLE TO SEE EVEN STUDYING AND LEARNING ABOUT MALCOLM X'S LIFE, IS THAT SOME OF THE SAME TALKING POINTS THAT HAVE BEEN USED AGAINST MALCOLM X., AGAINST OTHER INDIVIDUALS AND ACTIVISTS IN THE 1960S WHO WERE FIGHTING AGAINST RACISM HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN USED IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS TO MISREPRESENT AND UNDERMINE THOSE OF US WHO ARE ENGAGING IN THE FIGHT AGAINST RACISM.

WHETHER THAT IS THE PRESENTING OF MARTIN LUTHER KING JR. OR MALCOLM X AS SOMEHOW ANTI- AMERICAN OR ANTIWHITE, THAT IS HOW THOSE OF US WHO HAVE BEEN ENGAGED IN ACTIVISM OR IN MY CASE PRODUCED SCHOLARSHIP ABOUT RACISM IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS, THAT IS PRECISELY HOW WE HAVE BEEN MISREPRESENTED.

YOU HAD AMERICANS IN THE 60s, PARTICULARLY WHITE AMERICANS WHO FEARED CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVISTS BECAUSE THEY WERE MISLED INTO BELIEVING THAT THEY WERE NOT STRIVING TO ELIMINATE SEGREGATION ARE NOT STRIVING TO CREATE EQUAL OPPORTUNITY.

THEY WERE MISREPRESENTED AS STRIVING TO HARM WHITE PEOPLE.

SIMILARLY, IT'S THE SAME TALKING POINT THAT'S BEEN HAPPENING OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS.

THOSE OF US THAT WERE TRYING TO CREATE OPPORTUNITY AND ANTIRACIST POLICY THAT LEADS TO RACIAL EQUITY WE ARE NOT ACTUALLY TRYING TO DO THAT.

WE ARE MISREPRESENTED AS TRYING TO HARM AMERICA OR WHITE PEOPLE.

THAT IS WHAT IS INTERESTING IN TERMS OF "MALCOLM LIVES" COMING IN AT THIS TIME.

PEOPLE SEE THAT THE SAME TALKING POINTS CONTINUE TO BE REPRODUCED TO CONSERVE RACISM.

>> YOU LOOK AT THE BLACK LIVES MATTER PROTEST.

I WAS STRUCK BY AN ANSWER YOU GAVE TO A QUESTION IN AN INTERVIEW ABOUT THE IMPACT THEY HAVE HAD LOOKING BACK.

YOU SAID, IT DID NOT LEAD TO THE TYPES OF CHANGES WE WANTED.

RACISM IS ON THE MARCH.

ARE YOU OPTIMISTIC, HOWEVER, THAT IT CAN BE COMBATED ONCE AGAIN BY THIS GENERATION WHO THIS BOOK IS TARGETED FOR?

I AM ASKING THIS AS SOMEONE WHO HAS HAD EIGHT BOOKS BAND.

>> I AM OPTIMISTIC AND HOPEFUL.

FRANKLY, MY HOPE AND OPTIMISM, MY RADICAL HOPE DOES NOT NECESSARILY STEM FROM WHAT IS HAPPENING OR NOT HAPPENING IN SOCIETY.

I REMAIN HOPEFUL AND OPTIMISTIC BECAUSE I DON'T BELIEVE I COULD GET UP EVERY DAY AND SEEK TO DOCUMENT RACISM.

SEEK TO EXPLAIN A PATHWAY TO ABOLISHING RACISM IF I DID NOT BELIEVE IT WAS EVEN POSSIBLE.

YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE SOMETHING CAN BE CHANGED IN ORDER TO PUT IN THE WORK THAT IS GOING TO LEAD TO THAT CHANGE.

EVEN IF YOU RECOGNIZE THAT CHANGING SAID THING, OR ELIMINATING RACISM SEEMINGLY IS IMPOSSIBLE, WE CAN STILL BELIEVE THE IMPOSSIBLE.

HUMAN BEINGS HAVE DONE THE IMPOSSIBLE TIME AND AGAIN.

IT WAS CONSIDERED IMPOSSIBLE TO ABOLISH CHATTEL SLAVERY ARE TWO AND EARLIER FORMS OF COLONIALISM OR FEUDALISM AND WE DID IT.

>> SO MANY OF THESE TOOLS TO GET THERE CAME FROM READING BOOKS AND NOT JUST GOING TO YOUTUBE OR LOOKING UP VIDEOS OR FOLLOWING SOCIAL MEDIA.

ANOTHER REASON BOOKS ARE SO IMPORTANT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> YOU ARE WELCOME.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>>> WE TURN NOW TO WHAT OUR NEXT GUEST CALLS THE BIG DEBT CYCLE.

FINANCIER RAY DALIO CALLS THIS A CRITICAL CYCLE.

IN HIS NEW BOOK HE PROVIDES SOLUTIONS AND DETAILS ABOUT AVOIDING FISCAL CRISIS.

>> THANK YOU.

RAY DALIO, WELCOME BACK TO THE SHOW.

>> SO GOOD TO BE BACK.

>> THE BIG BEAUTIFUL BILL AS TRUMP CALLS IT HAS PASSED THE HOUSE.

THE SENATE IS WRESTLING WITH IT.

IT SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD ADD $2.4 TRILLION TO THE DEFICIT.

SHOULD WE WORRY ABOUT THAT ADDING TOO MUCH TO THE DEFICIT?

>> I THINK IF THERE IS ONE THING I COULD GIVE PEOPLE THAT I'M COMPELLED TO GIVE PEOPLE NOW, IT'S AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE MECHANICS OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND SO PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND HOW TO ANSWER THAT BASTION WHICH IS WHY AS A GLOBAL INVESTOR FOR 50 YEARS WHO HAS BEEN THROUGH MANY OF THESE, I WANTED TO PASS ALONG MY BOOK, MY DESCRIPTION OF THE MECHANICS.

IN ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION I WANT TO SAY WHY IT'S A COMPELLING MOMENT.

IF THEY DO NOT BRING IT DOWN TO 3% OF GDP FROM WHERE IT WILL BE ABOUT 7% OF GDP.

THEY HAVE TO BRING IT DOWN BY 4% OF GDP, THERE IS VERY HIGH LIKELIHOOD OF REAL PROBLEMS.

>> YOU SAY YOU'VE GOT TO BRING IT DOWN BY MORE THAN HALF.

CAN THAT BE DONE WITH SPENDING CUTS ALONE?

OR DO YOU THINK THEY SHOULD LET SOME OF THE TAX CUTS EXPIRE?

>> IT HAS TO BE DONE BY THREE THINGS.

IT HAS TO BE SPREAD OUT AMONG THESE THREE THINGS.

ANYONE OF THOSE THREE THINGS WOULD BE TOO PAINFUL.

THOSE THREE THINGS ARE TAX REVENUE, SPENDING CUTS, AND INTEREST RATES.

ALTHOUGH CONGRESS AND THE PRESIDENT IN THE PROCESS DOES NOT DEAL DIRECTLY WITH A THIRD OF THOSE, RIGHT NOW $1 TRILLION, HALF OF THE DEFICIT, HIS INTEREST PAYMENTS.

NOT ONLY DO WE HAVE $1 TRILLION INTEREST PAYMENTS, IN THE NEXT YEAR WE HAVE $9 TRILLION OF DEBT MATURING THAT HAS TO BE EITHER ROLLED OVER OR SOLD.

>> DOESN'T THAT MEAN INTEREST RATES WILL NOT GO DOWN IF WE ADD MORE TO THE DEFICIT AND ALL OF THIS IS EXPIRING?

>> THERE IS WHAT I CALL MY 3% THREE-PART SOLUTION.

IT WAS VERY SIMILAR TO 1990 -- EXCUSE ME, 1991 TO 1998.

IT WAS CUT BY 5% OF GDP.

THE BUDGET DEFICIT.

IN THOSE YEARS IT WAS CUT BY 5% BY SPREADING IT AROUND.

THE THREE THINGS THAT ARE NEEDED.

IF THERE IS A MANTRA THAT ABOUT -- HERE IS THE MAGNITUDE OF IT.

ABOUT 4% IF IT CAME FROM TAX REVENUE.

THAT DOES NOT MEAN TAX RATES.

IT CAN BE TAX REVENUE.

4% CUT FROM THE BUDGET DEFICIT.

THAT WOULD NATURALLY CHANGE THE SUPPLY DEMAND PICTURE TO BRING DOWN INTEREST RATES BY 1 TO 1 1/2% WHICH WOULD ITSELF REDUCE THE DEFICIT BY ANOTHER 2% ARE SO .

.

>> LET ME PUSH ON THAT QUESTION OF HOW ARE YOU GOING TO RAISE MORE REVENUE.

YOU SAY IT IS NOT JUST BY ALLOWING TAX CUTS TO EXPIRE.

DON'T SOME OF THEM HAVE TO EXPIRE IF THE SOLUTION IS GOING TO WORK?

>> WHERE IT COMES IS A POLITICAL QUESTION.

IN OTHER WORDS, YES.

YOU CAN LET THE TAX EXPIRE.

SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS.

>> WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

YOU ARE ONE OF THE WEALTHIEST PEOPLE.

THE TAX CUTS HELP YOU.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO IN TERMS OF THOSE TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHY?

>> I WOULD ALLOW IMPORTANT TAX INCREASES IN A WAY THAT ALSO, MY OWN VIEW WOULD BE IMPROVE EDUCATION.

IMPROVE PRODUCTIVITY IN A WAY THAT RAISES PRODUCTIVITY FOR MOST PEOPLE AND SO ON.

THIS -- THIS IS NOT MY POLITICAL.

I WANT TO SAY WHETHER YOU TURN LEFT OR YOU TURN RIGHT, WHAT I SEE WHEN I GO DOWN THERE AND I SPEAK TO BOTH SIDES OF CONGRESS , THE PEOPLE WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS.

NOBODY DISAGREES WITH THE NEED TO GO TO 3% OF GDP IN THAT NUMBER.

WHAT I AM SEEING IN POLITICS IS THAT IT'S LIKE BEING ON A SHIP THAT IS HEADED TO ROCKS.

THERE ARE THOSE WHO WANT TO TURN RIGHT AND THOSE WHO WANT TO TURN LEFT.

THEY ARE SO BENT ON ARGUING WHETHER THEY TURN RIGHT OR LEFT THAT THEY WILL NOT GET PAST.

THEY WILL HIT THE ROCKS.

>> PRESIDENT TRUMP SEEMS TO BE TRYING TO JAWBONE THE FED CHAIRMAN JEROME POWELL INTO CUTTING INTEREST RATES.

DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE?

WITH THE BOND MARKET PERMIT IT?

>> IF INTEREST RATES ARE UNNATURALLY CUT BY THE CENTRAL BANK PRINTING MONEY OR PUSHING DOWN INTEREST RATES UNNATURALLY THE BOND MARKET WILL NOT WANT TO OWN THAT.

THINK ABOUT WHEN YOU OWN A BOND WHAT YOU ARE GETTING HIS INTEREST RATES.

THE DOLLAR WILL GO DOWN, THE VALUE OF MONEY WILL GO DOWN AND IT IS DISCOURAGING.

>> ON SUNDAY THE TREASURY SECRETARY SAID THAT TARIFFS WOULD HELP RINGING ENOUGH MONEY THAT WE WOULD NOT END UP HAVING AS BIG OF A DEFICIT.

DOES THAT RING TRUE TO YOU?

>> WE ARE IN A WORLD GEOPOLITICAL SITUATION THAT RELATES TO MANY THINGS SUCH AS SELF-SUFFICIENCY AND SO ON.

IT CAN BRING IN A LOT OF MONEY.

IT ALSO CREATES A LESS EFFICIENT WORLD ECONOMY.

SO HOW THE TARIFFS ARE PUT IN PLACE, WHAT AMOUNTS, IT HAS TO BE DONE SCIENTIFICALLY.

TAX REVENUE CAN COME FROM THAT, BUT IT IS A MATTER OF SURGERY AND HAS TO BE DONE CAREFULLY AND MODERATELY SO AS TO NOT DISRUPT THAT.

I AM CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.

THAT IS NOT GOING TO BE ENOUGH.

>> IN YOUR BOOK YOU ARE IN FAVOR OF SOME TARIFFS MODERATELY IT APPLIED IN A SCIENTIFIC WAY THAT IS NOT JUST HELTER-SKELTER.

EXPLAIN WHY YOU ARE IN FAVOR OF THAT AND WHY YOU THINK THAT WAY TRUMP IS DOING IT NOT BE EFFECTIVE.

>> WE HAVE A GIANT IN BALANCE.

THE UNITED STATES IS THE LARGEST CONSUMER IN THE WORLD.

IT IS LARGELY BECAUSE THE U.S. GOVERNMENT GETS IN DEBT AND DISTRIBUTES THE MONEY AND IT IS A CONSUMER.

AS WE HAVE -- CORRECTLY WE HAVE LOST OUR ABILITY TO MANUFACTURE.

CHINA IS THE LARGEST MANUFACTURER IN THE WORLD.

THEY LEND US THE MONEY TO BORROW, TO BUY THEIR GOODS.

NOW WE HAVE A BIG IMBALANCE.

WE HAVE A CAPITOL IMBALANCE AND A TRADE IMBALANCE.

IN A WORLD THAT THERE IS A RISK OF GOING TO WAR, AS WE DEAL WITH SELF-SUFFICIENCY, INCREASINGLY WE HAVE TO BECOME MORE SELF-SUFFICIENT.

WE HAVE TO BECOME MORE BALANCED ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

IF THAT IS DONE ECONOMICALLY, WE HAVE A POPULATION THAT IS NOT PRODUCTIVE IN MANUFACTURING.

WE HAVE A GREAT POLARITY OF WEALTH.

60% OF AMERICANS HAVE BELOW A SIXTH GRADE READING LEVEL.

THERE IS A PRODUCTIVITY PROBLEM AND AN ECONOMIC PROBLEM.

IF THAT IS DEALT WITH IN A SCIENTIFIC AND BALANCED WAY, THAT COULD HAVE SOME BENEFITS.

IT IS NOT A BLACK-AND-WHITE SITUATION, BUT IT HAS TO BE DONE WITH THOROUGHNESS.

ONE WAY OR ANOTHER THE IMBALANCE WILL GO AWAY.

THE DEBT IMBALANCE, THE TRADE IMBALANCE, THE CAPITOL IMBALANCE BECAUSE THEY CANNOT BE SUSTAINED IN THE WORLD THAT NOW EXISTS.

>> WHEN YOU SAY ONE WAY OR ANOTHER THEY WILL GO AWAY, THAT OTHER SOUNDS PRETTY OMINOUS.

WHAT ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT?

>> I AM WORRIED -- LET'S GO BACK TO THE DEBT.

I AM WORRIED THAT THE DEMAND FOR THOSE BONDS WILL NOT BE EQUAL TO THE SUPPLY.

I AM WORRIED THAT AS THE DEBT IS AT THIS POINT.

YOU HAVE TO ACQUIRE DEBT TO SERVICE DEBT.

YOU HAVE TO BORROW MONEY TO SERVICE IT.

$10 TRILLION A YEAR.

WHEN YOU HAVE THAT KIND OF CONDITION YOU WILL HAVE AN UNSUSTAINABLE SITUATION.

THE CENTRAL BANK, THE FEDERAL RESERVE WILL BE PUT INTO A POSITION OF EITHER SEEING INTEREST RATES RISE A LOT BECAUSE OF THAT PROBLEM, CROWDING OUT OTHER SPENDING, COSTING IT MONEY BECAUSE THEY OWN A LOT OF BONDS.

LETTING THAT HAPPEN OR THEM HAVING TO PRINT MONEY AND BUY THOSE BONDS WHICH DEPRECIATES THE VALUE.

VERY SIMILAR TO THE 1970S.

>> DO YOU THINK THERE IS A CHANCE OR LIKELIHOOD OF A RECESSION?

>> WE ALWAYS HAVE RECESSIONS.

JUST IMAGINE WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU HAVE A RECESSION.

ON AVERAGE SINCE 1945 WHEN THE NEW WORLD ORDER BEGAN, WE'VE HAD 12 AND A HALF CYCLES.

YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE A RECESSION.

I'M VERY WORRIED THAT THIS SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES WILL ASSUREDLY, WE WILL HAVE A RECESSION.

THAN THE DEFICITS GO UP.

IT IS VERY DIFFICULT AT THAT TIME BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE AT EACH OTHER'S THROATS.

THERE WILL BE AN INTERNAL FIGHT.

THE IMPORTANT THINGS TO DEAL WITH THIS NOW BEFORE YOU HAVE A LOT MORE DEBT, BEFORE YOU HAVE A LOT MORE COMPOUNDING OF THE DEBT.

BEFORE YOU HAVE A RECESSION.

>> LET ME READ YOU A SENTENCE FROM YOUR BOOK THAT MADE ME SNAP MY HEAD.

IT SAYS, QUOTE, THE POLICIES PRESIDENT TRUMP IS USING TWO, QUOTE, MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN I REMARKABLY LIKE THE POLICIES THOSE OF THE HARD RIGHT COUNTRIES IN THE 1930S USED.

TELL ME WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT.

>> WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS THE 1930S HAD A DEBT CRISIS.

LOCAL GOVERNMENTS WERE DYSFUNCTIONAL AND FOUR DEMOCRACIES CHOSE TO GO TO MORE AUTOCRATIC POLICIES FOR SOMEBODY TO GET CONTROL OF THE SITUATION IN ORDER TO FIX THE SITUATION.

YOU HAD A DEBT PROBLEM.

WHAT GERMANY DID, AND A NUMBER OF COUNTRIES, THEY ESSENTIALLY DEFAULTED ON THE DEBT.

THEY DID NOT PAY AND THEN YOU HAVE THAT MORE AUTOCRATIC TYPE OF POLICY BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WANT SOMEBODY TO GET CONTROL OF THE SITUATION AND THEN YOU HAVE THE CLASSIC CONFLICT BETWEEN THE LEFT AND THE RIGHT.

THIS HAS HAPPENED REPEATEDLY.

THEN YOU HAVE A FIGHT BETWEEN THE LEFT AND RIGHT.

THIS HAS HAPPENED REPEATEDLY.

I'M REFERRING TO THE 30s BUT THIS HAS HAPPENED REPEATEDLY THROUGHOUT HISTORY.

>> DO YOU THINK IT IS HAPPENING IN THE UNITED STATES THAT WE ARE SLIPPING TOWARD AUTOCRACY?

>> YES.

I DO BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WANT SOMEBODY TO GET CONTROL OF THIS THING.

YOU SEE IT YOURSELF.

WE ARE NOW QUESTIONING, THERE IS A CHALLENGE.

HOW DOES THE LEGAL SYSTEM WORK.

WHO HAS WHAT RIGHTS.

THE POSSIBILITY OF THIS NOT ACCEPTING AN ELECTION RESULT.

THESE THINGS ARE VERY REAL TODAY.

'S REMARK WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT PERHAPS WE ARE MOVING INTO A AUTOCRACY THERE IS ANOTHER SENTENCE THAT STRUCK ME .

AS SHOWN IN HISTORY THE TRANSFER OF OUR FROM DEMOCRACY TO AUTOCRACY WAS MORE OFTEN THAN NOT ORDERLY BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE SICK AND TIRED OF THE SYSTEM FAILING TO WORK AND WANTED TO GIVE POWER TO A LEADER THAT WOULD TAKE CONTROL AND MAKE IT WORK WELL.

DO YOU THINK IT IS A DESIRE OF PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES TO MOVE TO AN AUTOCRATIC SYSTEM.

>> THERE IS A STRONG DESIRE FOR SOMEBODY TO GET CONTROL OF THIS AND WILLINGNESS TO HAVE THAT MORE AUTOCRATIC TYPE TO DELIVER THOSE RESULTS.

I THINK SO.

>> WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE POTENTIAL OF GETTING MORE REVENUE, I THINK IN YOUR BOOK YOU TALK ABOUT A 2% INCREASE IN THE INCOME TAX.

WOULD YOU MAKE THAT PART OF YOUR SOLUTION PACKAGE?

>> SURE.

I THINK WHAT IS REQUIRED IS A LITTLE BIT FROM EVERYBODY AND EVERYTHING.

>> WHAT ABOUT EXPENDITURE CUTS?

WOULD YOU CUT THE MILITARY?

>> AS YOU GO DOWN THAT PRIORITIZATION, THESE ARE POLITICAL QUESTIONS THAT NOW BECAUSE OF THE DEBT SERVICE BEING SO HIGH, WE HAVE VERY LITTLE ROOM TO CUT ANYTHING WE DO NOT THINK IS ESSENTIAL.

NOW YOU HAVE THE REPRESENTATIVES IN CONGRESS HAVING TO MAKE THAT CHOICE.

THEY BETTER MAKE THE CHOICE AS TO WHETHER IT IS THE MILITARY OR SOMETHING ELSE.

I DON'T REALLY CARE.

CUT IT, GET TO SOMETHING LIKE A 4% CUT AND THAT IS NOT EASY.

SO WHERE THAT HAPPENS BECAUSE IF WE LOSE OUR ECONOMIC WELL- BEING, IF WE LOSE OUR HEALTH AND POWER ECONOMICALLY, AS WE LOSE THE DOLLAR IT REVERBERATES THROUGH NOT ONLY AMERICAN POWER.

IT REVERBERATES THROUGH THE WORLD BECAUSE THE U.S.

BOND MARKET, THE TREASURY MARKET IS THE BACKBONE OF ALL MARKETS.

THAT COULD PRODUCE THAT KIND OF TRAUMA.

SO HOW THEY GET THERE AND THE PARTICULAR TRADE-OFFS IS FOR THOSE EXPERTS AND REPRESENTATIVES IN WASHINGTON TO WEIGH THOSE CONSIDERATIONS.

IT IS NOT FOR ME.

>> IF YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT IS A THREE MINISTRY MINISTRY SOLUTION THAT WOULD REQUIRE -- 3-3-3 SOLUTION, DO YOU THINK THAT IS A GRAND BARGAIN AND IS IT POSSIBLE?

>> I DO NOT THINK WE WILL HAVE A GRAND BARGAIN UNTIL AFTER THE 2026 MIDTERMS.

THE BUDGET WILL PASS.

IT WILL BE THIS SITUATION I'M DESCRIBING.

THEN, WHAT MY HOPE WOULD BE IS THAT THERE IS A MANDATORY BIPARTISAN SOLUTION.

THEY CREATE THE EQUIVALENT OF A MANHATTAN PROJECT AND SO ON AND CREATE A MANDATORY BIPARTISAN WAY OF DEALING WITH THAT.

DO I THINK THAT IS LIKELY?

I DO NOT THINK IT IS LIKELY BUT IF WE DO NOT ACHIEVE A BIPARTISAN SITUATION WE WILL HAVE A FINANCIAL CRISIS AND BE FIGHTING WITH EACH OTHER.

HOPEFULLY THE COMPELLING NATURE OF THIS, BEFORE WE HAVE A RECESSION WHICH WILL MAKE THE SITUATION WORSE.

>> RAY DALIO, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> TODAY MARKS THE 81st ANNIVERSARY OF D-DAY, THE LARGEST SEABORNE INVASION IN HISTORY AND THE BEGINNING OF LIBERATION OF WESTERN EUROPE IN WORLD WAR II.

IT'S A MOMENT TO REFLECT ON THE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WHO GAVE THEIR LIFE STANDING UP TO TYRANNY.

A REP -- AN IMPORTANT REMINDER AS THE WAR IN UKRAINE RAGES ON.

ALMOST 2 DOZEN MADE THE JOURNEY BACK TO NORMANDIE TO HONOR THE MEMORY OF THEIR BROTHERS IN ARMS.

IN 2024, CHRISTIANE SAT DOWN WITH THE CLAIM DOCTOR TOM HANKS FOR THE 80th ANNIVERSARY.

FROM PLANE CAPTAIN MILLER IN SAVING PRIVATE RYAN TO PRODUCING BAND OF BROTHERS AND MASTERS OF THE AIR, HIS WORK TO PRESERVE THE STORIES OF THIS HEROIC GENERATION.

HERE IS SOME OF THEIR CONVERSATION.

>> TOM HANKS, WELCOME.

>> CHRISTIANE, NICE TO SEE YOU.

>> YOU HAVE DONE SO MUCH ON WORLD WAR II.

I WANT TO KNOW WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO BE HERE ON THE 80th.

IT MAY BE THE LAST OF THESE REUNIONS?

>> IF YOU DO THE MATH.

SAY YOU WERE 17 YEARS OLD AND YOU WERE MAKING YOUR FIRST TRIP INTO COMBAT ON JUNE 6 OF 1944, DO THE MATH, YOU ARE NOW 97 YEARS OLD.

THE FIRST THING THAT I SAY TO ANY OTHER VETERANS IS DON'T GET UP.

THEY ARE MORE OR LESS WHEELCHAIR-BOUND.

THERE THEY ARE RESPLENDENT IN THEIR PATCHES AND HATS AND CAPS AND THE MEMORIES.

I PONDER WHAT THESE LAST 80 YEARS HAS BEEN FOR THEM.

I WANT TO ASK THEM, WHAT IS THE MOST EXTRAORDINARY THING YOU'VE WITNESSED SINCE THAT DAY.

THERE IS AN AWFUL LOT TO TAKE NOTE OF.

WHAT ANY OF IT HAVE HAPPENED IF THIS DAY HAVE NOT?

>> I WONDER SINCE YOU LEAD ME INTO THAT WESTON, BARRING THE COLD WAR IT IS PROBABLY THE MOST DIFFICULT, THE MOST EXISTENTIAL CRISIS FOR EVERYBODY SINCE THEIR SACRIFICE WITH RUSSIA HAVING INVADED UKRAINE WITH A LITERAL RAGING WAR IN EUROPE.

>> I NEVER THOUGHT THERE WOULD BE A LAND WAR IN EUROPE IN MY LIFETIME AGAIN BECAUSE IT HAD PROVEN TO BE SO DISASTROUS.

IT COMES OUT OF THE EGO OF ONE HUMAN BEING.

ONE GUY, BACK IN THE 1930S SAYS I'M GOING TO SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS BECAUSE I KNOW WHAT WORKS AND WHAT DOES NOT.

I AM JUST OPINIONATED AS ANYONE YOU WILL COME ACROSS, BUT THERE WAS A THOUGHT THAT AMERICA, PARTICULARLY AMERICA WAS LAZY, DIVIDED, UNDISCIPLINED, COULDN'T GET ITS ACT TOGETHER AND WOULD NEVER BAND TOGETHER TO DO THE RIGHT THING BY CHOICE.

WHEN I AM HERE I THINK OF A BUNCH OF KIDS.

IT WAS A YOUNG FORCE THAT CAME HERE.

IF YOU ARE 25 YEARS OLD THEY CALLED YOU 'OR THEY CALLED YOU THE OLD MAN.

THEY LEFT ALL OF THE COMFORTS OF A VERY COMFORTABLE AND SAFE AMERICA AND THEY PUT THEMSELVES HERE BECAUSE IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

THEY WERE NOT DEFENDING THE STATUS QUO.

THEY WERE NOT GAINING TERRITORY.

THEY WERE NOT HERE FOR RICHES OR TO CONQUER ANYTHING.

THEY WERE HERE TO MEND THE FUTURE IF I CAN COIN A WORD THAT JUST CAME OUT IN A BOOK THAT I READ.

HAD D-DAY NOT HAPPENED.

THAT IS NOT HARD TO IMAGINE.

WE CAN SEE THE INVASION IN OUR MINDS BUT WE CAN ALSO IMAGINE WHAT IF IT HAD NOT HAPPENED.

IF IT HAD STAYED A CONQUERED TERRITORY BY ONE OF THE MOST MURDEROUS REGIMES.

THERE WE GO.

FEDEX IS DELIVERING MY LUNCH RIGHT NOW.

WHAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN LIKE IF ALL OF THOSE YOUNG FORCES AND THE CANADIANS AND ENGLISH HAD NOT COME ALONG AND SAID, THOSE PEOPLE ARE WRONG.

>> DO YOU THINK IT WILL GET MORE DIFFICULT?

THEY ARE REACHING THE END OF THEIR LIVES.

>> I WOULD LIKE TO THINK IF THERE IS ANYTHING THAT ME AND MY FRIENDS HAVE DONE IN THE OFFICE IS BROUGHT GREAT CURRENCY TO THE STORIES THAT THEY TELL.

EVERYTHING THAT COMES OUT OF THEM IS A PRECIOUS IT OF SCRIPTURE THAT SHOULD BE READ AND STUDIED.

>> TOM HANKS, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> WHAT A DAY.

>>> IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT IS COMING UP EACH NIGHT SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

JOIN US AGAIN NEXT TIME.